5.whether the body you anchor the landing gears to are firm. Do you have new pics after you moved the rear wheels forward? As long as you're in space, your spaceplane won't differ from any spacecraft: you will probably want to add batteries and generators to prevent the command pod from running out of power. They all had to use the runway drop to take off. T-1 "Dart" engines are unique amongst conventionally-fuelled rocket engines: They have close to the highest efficiency in both vacuum and low atmosphere. Similar principles apply when finding suitable landing sites away from the KSC. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. I made this aircraft based on real life commercial jet design. To recover the most value from your spaceplane, you should try to land on the runway at the Space Center (this tutorial, although it has been written for spacecraft and not spaceplanes, is a great help). symmetry building makes them face slightly towards (or away from) each other, with wobbly results. So I have played the game for 200 hours and I love it. EDIT: It was the b9 procedural wings. A plane is any craft which flies horizontally in an atmosphere utilizing lift primarily generated by wings, winglets, or control surfaces. FAR says it would take an Angle of Attack of 24.3 degrees at 119 m/s to generate enough lift to get it to take off. As you approach 35-50 km, your aircraft will most likely level itself out, at which point you can try aiming about five degrees above the horizon line. Tutorial: Basic Plane Design - Kerbal Space Program Wiki Though, I use the FAR mod which will change things, so I can't guarantee the results will be useful, but it might be interesting. 6.4K Downloads Updated Jun 7, 2017 Created Jun 7, 2017. . Try disabling friction control with on the front landing gears. My Space Plane Keeps Flipping Backwards On The Runway. Basic structure Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. To minimize drag, vertical tail fins can be kept minimal, since aircraft can be maneuvered adequately by roll and pitch alone. Plane wobble during takeoff - Kerbal Space Program Forums i have no idea why this happens please help. However, make sure to use struts when placing landing gears on the far edges of a multi-part wing because they may sag enough to cause a fuselage collision with the runway during landing. Make sure that all of your landing gears are pointing in exactly the same direction. Spaceplanes generally ascend best on a 10-30 degree incline, often leveling out towards higher altitudes to pick up the maximum horizontal velocity before switching to rocket motors. But I am still not sure if there are more reasons or perhaps it is just a physics bug which I am wasting my time on. I have done everything imaginable to try to remedy this problem. Vice versa a plane with lots of control surfaces will be perfectly controllable (maybe even too much) but may have big difficulties with taking off and landing at reasonable speeds. Here is your convenient solution to this problem! See the tutorial below. Here is your convenient solution to this problem! To maximize lift, your aircraft should rest on the ground with the fuselage tilted upward at anywhere up to a 25-27 angle so that the wings will end up tilted back at up to 30. When dealing with high-speed landings, you may touch down too quickly and cause the front of the plane to smack into the runway. Yours is a very light plane, and the standard suspension settings are for a medium heavy plane -- so your suspension is too stiff. You can post now and register later. If there is, I would have found it long ago. For an example, see the A-10 Warthog's landing gears: link. So I started a new career file after not really playing for a long time and I'm now at the point where I just dropped 45 Science to unlocked Aviation to get some of the plane parts that I need. Now for wings, the "Wing Connector Type B" is the largest you have so far; connect a set of those where the centre of mass is. Thanks for the help guys. If you are using B9 Rocketery or other parts that utilize Firesplitter, this is normal. If your spaceplane is difficult to land when full of fuel but easy to land when empty, then it may be helpful to burn off or transfer out most of the excess fuel before landing to make the aircraft lighter. This helped immensely and if you haven't been doing this already, do it. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99660-0-25-Adjustable-Landing-Gear-v1-0-4%28doors-fixed%29-Nov-14. Beyond that, you're going to get some wobble once you get close to take off speed. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/13851-The-woes-of-building-a-space-plane?highlight=woes+spaceplane. I just thought my planes were too heavy or not enough control surfaces. A relatively low-drag alternative is to use an inverted cargo bay and some hydraulic cylinders with structural panels as a cargo elevator. My plane usually take off at a little over 120m/s. - SF. It is also said that a good landing is one you can walk away from. Display as a link instead, I have created a score of other aircrafts with different designs but deleted them because they didnt work even on the runway. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Basic_Plane_Design&oldid=97453, In the front of the plane - In this position, the control surfaces are also known as , In the back of the plane, on the tail - The most usual position; usually, close to the rudder. This ensures that your aircraft will go up once it achieves a high enough speed, and also helps with placing ailerons. This is starting to get really frustrating. Otherwise, you can either shift your wings till it's right (though this may crowd them near the back), or you can very slightly rotate the big wings so they're slightly higher near the front of the plane. (However, it must be noted that it is bad practice to use ailerons as elevators since it makes it hard to control the aircraft), The rudder moves the tip of the plane left and right; it is rarely used, since it is hard to put it both up and down due to the possibility of hitting the ground. Also note that shock cone intakes appear to provide the best air supply at all mach speeds, and unlike other air intakes, they do not decline in performance beyond certain mach speeds. Saves a lot of headache in wheels placement. 32.5K Downloads Updated Dec 11, 2014 Created Dec 11, 2014. Does your plane never pull up taking off? I have been building - reddit A Mk1 Cockpit, two Mk 1 Liquid Fuel Tanks, and then cap the back with a round nose cone (use the A/D keys to rotate it as necessary). Is there a way to rectify this problem. For some reason, when the plane is trying to take off and pulling up, the plane begins to bounce on it's front wheels (the back wheel kicks up), whichhinders the plane taking off. "Type E" is the smallest you should have, and you want a set of those connected at the back of the fuselage. I am accelerating it to over 200m/s on the runway just to test the stability of those wheels since the faster you go, the more likely the plane will wobble and flip on the runway. It is also common to add an Inline Clamp-O-Tron, which, unlike all the other docking ports, can be placed in the middle of the spacecraft (a handy solution, since there is not much space at either end of the craft) to allow your plane to dock with space stations or other spacecrafts. Paste as plain text instead, Also, excessive use of the rudder usually causes the plane to spin out of control and crash. When gear is placed, it has just one point of attachment. Here, the. Plane bouncing on takeoff - Gameplay Questions and Tutorials - Kerbal Space Program Forums Hello, I am having a small problem with a plane I have built. Keep your nose pointed prograde as you descend through the atmosphere. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com, Press J to jump to the feed. Upload or insert images from URL. Depending on which surface you place them on, they might not be parallel to the axis in which case. KSP short takeoff plane test | Simple Horten Ho 229 replica It is also advisable to add some control surfaces to your plane to have some control in the atmosphere: you can manually add them to the wings or choose winglets with effective control surfaces, like the Standard Canard. everytime i make a powered plane, it always flips over and points backwards after i take off. I was attaining high speeds on the runway without getting off the ground, which made the plane yaw back and forth. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. 3. angle of the wheels. The problem could be about the angle of wheels, though there could be more problems with the COM and wheels placement. Hello, I am having a small problem with a plane I have built. This is good for spaceplanes operating in low-oxygen atmospheres where jet engines can't be used. I have built lots of spaceplanes. I am definitely aware that there are multiple reasons as to why the plane flips. However, they do take a conventional mix of fuel and oxidizer, and thus require much more fuel mass than jet engines or LV-N Nerv. Upload or insert images from URL. All I have are the parts from the Aerodynamics tech and the gear bay (wheels). EDIT: So, I set the front landing gear spring and damper to 0.5, and also set the tail gear spring and damper to 2, and the problem was fixed! I do add a strut to each wheel out of habit since my earlier versions use to roll, better safe than sorry. Tutorial: Spaceplane basics - Kerbal Space Program Wiki Hit the launch button and watch your magnificent bird fly! They all had to use the runway drop to take off. I also used Intake build aid to balance the intakes. Also note that for maximum efficiency, you should make sure that your horizontal control surfaces are rotated to exactly the same pitch that you've rotated your wings. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. I shouldn't have placed landing gears on the fuselage, I found that placing landing gears on flat surfaces like wings make landing gears a lot more stable. To do this, take a few barrels of your jet fuel, stick them on the back of your aircraft. If you have seen the examples above, I have planes that have angled landing gear and they work perfectly, yet some planes with straight landing gears don't. Any ideas? As with everything in KSP, experiment, experiment, experiment. Nothing bad will happen. 1. make sure your main gear is not wobbling (ie. Subscribe! You can also angle the wings themselves slightly upwards (using WASDQE) in order to make them generate more lift when horizontal. Thanks for all the help. Just like with rockets, get some courageous Kerbal in the cockpit and let's get started! I took off and at 60 m/s I was in the air! That's over 2x the normal recommended max. Tutorial: Your First Plane - Kerbal Space Program Wiki Clear editor. While it's true that jet engines don't work in space, they offer one large advantage over rocket engines while inside the atmosphere: fuel efficiency. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. First try speed over land reached over 210 m/s before flipping in the last second. How to Fly a Plane - KSP Beginner's Tutorial - YouTube Wing shapes do not appear to have a significant impact on drag or drag-to-lift ratio at this time, but swept wings are still an easy way to help ensure that your center of lift stays behind your center of mass. I'm making sure that I keep trying to get it up but it just wont go! Also, try this mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99660-0-25-Adjustable-Landing-Gear-v1-0-4%28doors-fixed%29-Nov-14 (still works in 0.90 if you get updated firespitter.dll). To minimize the risk of such a situation, try to land on a large patch of flat open ground approaching a downhill slope. So yesterday I was playing some KSP2, and resumed the game from a save where I had landed in Duna. Valve Corporation. It is usually placed back because it can be placed further back than it is possible in the front (if it is placed in the front, it can obstruct the view of the pilot, which is undesired) as well as making the plane unstable (by the same effect that you would get if the center of lift (horizontal lifting surfaces) were in front of the center of mass, but with vertical surfaces). FAA investigating 'close call' between planes at Boston airport This is most likely the standard jitterbugging problem. The Mk1 fuselage parts only tolerate up to 2000K, while Mk2 fuselages tolerate up to 2500K, and Mk3 fuselages tolerate up to 2700K. First thing you're going to want to do in the SPH is turn on your centre of mass indicator (this is the point that the plane will rotate around when rolling, pitching, or yawing) and your centre of lift indicator (the Aerodynamic Overlay). Powered by Invision Community. Heavy Cargo Space Plane SSTO Download. Your very own tutorial.). Let it get good and clear of the ground before applying any control to it. 2. Edit: I made a simple easy plane in career mode that is both stable and cheap: A trick i've used before is to put modular girders on the sides of the fuselage and putting the gear on the bottom of the girders. This allows you to takeoff at lower speeds and on shorter runways, and likewise for landing. Note that as you fly higher the air intakes will become less effective and you may come to a point when the engines will shut down due to the lack of air. Pasted as rich text. Notice how the landing gears are placed out on the wings. Secondly, it would suggest that your spaceplane's center of lift is too far forward compared to its center of gravity (causing the uncontrollable spin). The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. if mounted on not struted part). Note: This tutorial was last updated for version 1.7.2. My Space Plane Keeps Flipping Backwards On The - Dive into anything This thread is archived . Privacy Policy. How to keep an airplane stable on the runway in Kerbal Space - Arqade Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. I have built lots of spaceplanes. 3. make sure your center of mass is slightly in front of center of lift force. Symmetry placement should give you perfect symmetry, as far as the game is concerned. Now I'll walk you through a basic aircraft; fancy stuff like science equipment can be added later. KSP 2 speculation: I believe terraforming will be a feature of the game For spaceplanes, avoid the FAT parts (wing, tail fin, and control surface). Thermal turbulence, caused by convection, happens below clouds and typically only impacts planes during takeoff and landing. You can even try refueling it before recovering your spaceplane further increasing your recovering value. I worked through the tutorials and I think my problem was most often a lack of lift, or perhaps more accurately sufficient control surfaces. It Flips Up And Towards The Opposite Direction. Need to move them up. They are able to operate at higher altitudes and can even continue operating in a vacuum by switching to a rocket mode. Managed to fix it with some different wings; idk what was going on with the other ones but I was just thr FAT aeroplane wings. This aircraft handles smoothly, no matter how you turn, roll and flip this aircraft, it will never lose control. 1. tilt of the plane. Your link has been automatically embedded. This is just a general briefing section with lots of "to do" or "not to do" things: when you think you've got it, check the Aeris 4A tutorial mission to learn how to get into space easily. Hopefully this gets you your first aircraft that can take off and land, which is the biggest hurdle to being able to make KSP aircraft. A control surface with 100% control surface portion will weigh twice as much as a wing with the same lift would weigh. Second try, speed over land reached over 210 m/s and it didn't flip. . Geometric shape of the body you attach the landing gear to. You want an elevon on each set of wings. Such flight involves lift-induced drag, but reduces the total thrust required to traverse a distance at a given speed. After a successful touchdown, high-speed motion on the runway (let alone uneven ground) can be unstable, causing the aircraft to careen to one side or the other, potentially resulting in loss of a wing and sometimes the entire aircraft. Keep in mind that lift rating and control surfaces are not connected: lift rating is basically the capacity of your wings to sustain the weight of your spaceplane, while control surfaces are parts of wing that can be moved to change the flow of the air around the plane and through this change a plane's direction, angle of attack or inclination. Heavy transport seaplane inspired to the Soviet Beriev A-40 Albatros which also appears in Evangelion 2.0! Paste as plain text instead, I removed them and it works fine now. This is all right if their high efficiency saves enough fuel, but that may not be the case in small spaceplanes with limited fuel capacity. One idea I haven't noticed here yet: "wire up" the landing gear, with strut connectors. At that point, the plane could potentially start spinning around as a result of losing the benefit of the gimbal control of the engine. If the problem has to do with lift then travelling very slowly, possibly even slower than that, should counteract the effects of lift and you won't drift nearly as much. Powered by Invision Community. Having said all that, these are the issues you must contend with. As such, don't use control surfaces as substitutes for wings, and don't use more control surfaces than you need. When your altitude reaches 35km, start pulling up gently. KSP Quick Guides: Takeoff Troubleshooting Stock v.22 - YouTube You may also want to deploy your landing gears to increase your drag, as well as airbrakes if you have them. @TheEnvironmentalist There is one more method I'm sure would work in your case, although I didn't write about it because I think it's cheesy and wouldn't solve the root problem. You cannot paste images directly. They could go up to 120 m/s on the runway and still not lift up. This is also the same reason why planes start rolling toward the middle of the runway; because both ends of the runway are further from . Mk2 aircraft may be able to get away with it, but even then it's often best to space them further out. For more information, please see our There are several forces in Kerbal Space Program which have an effect on the flight characteristics of SSTO craft. They sometimes coincide with elevators. An altitude set to 18,000 meters tops off at 19,000 meters and drops to 15,700 meters . - Make sure the landing gear is as close to the center of gravity as possible, just slightly behind it (for nosewheel aircraft). First, I'm sure this is WAY overengineered, but I haven't gotten to the point of caring about that yet. Those and the fixed main gear are NOTORIOUSLY bouncy. 1. make sure your main gear is not wobbling (ie. When your nose is stable at about 10 degrees above the horizon, pull up hard and keep it pulled. At around . The same principle applies here. Cure: Draw a mental axis from the nose to the tail of the plane and use the rotate tool (summetry on), on one of the wheels. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Planes and Ships - Shareables - Kerbal Space Program - CurseForge Plane spins/lurches to the side during takeoff? :: Kerbal Space Program This thread is quite old. Remember how you want your center of lift/drag to be behind the center of gravity? After that, you face the challenge of touching down on the ground and coming to a stop safely without rolling and breaking off a wing or taking a nosedive and blowing your aircraft up on touchdown, or rolling off of the runway and into the ocean. mods used are OPT for most of the body and the front canards and tail plane, B9 procedural wings for the wings, and mk4 spaceplane parts for the engines. It provides a wider, more stable wheel base while keeping the wheels straight up and down (no camber). If you have a very short length of runway remaining and your parachutes can't slow you down fast enough, you'll be forced to cut the chutes and attempt a second landing without them. here are some images and a gif. . Now put on center of mass and center of lift view, and move the delta wings until the center of lift is slightly behind of the center of mass - not in front, otherwise your aircraft will be able to easily flip out of control. All of these problems can be exacerbated or reduced by adjusting the amount of fuel in your tanks during landing. Plane bouncing on takeoff - Kerbal Space Program Forums KSP handling death investigation High Winds Cause Widespread Power Outages Ohio . If rear landing gear are strutted together, or braced to a center point, they are less likely to torque in different directions. 1. To slow down faster, you can increase the braking strength of your rear wheels. You can resolve the emergency by transferring fuel from rear fuel tanks to forward fuel tanks, but you should alter your design to bring your wings further back to prevent such incidents in the future. I was wrong. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. And at the extreme, producing down force, which I'm sure would cause more gear issues. But also check to make sure that your wheels are placed symmetrically and your engines are aligned properly. Close to empty tanks will allow you to fly slower, decelerate faster, and reduce touchdown strain. KSC's runway is slightly north of Kerbin's equator and perfectly flat. If you've been able to successfully re-enter on previous low orbit test runs, you should be able to use this method to achieve similar rates of success once you've slowed down sufficiently. As lift increases you remove some strain on the gear, however you've just increased the amount of sag. Note that no wings will tolerate more than 2400K, so the difference in temperature tolerance between Mk2 and Mk3 fuselages isn't terribly significant. Brakes in the back keep you stable. Or maybe launching it in a vertical, Space Shuttle-style config. But, likely guess is your craft is not producing enough lift. It's strongly recommended to keep your landing gears well-spaced from each other to ensure that the aircraft will be difficult to roll into a collision. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. If you placed the main wings at the centre of mass and then added the smaller wings behind, this should be correct already. To survive re-entry, it's recommended to start your approach back into the atmosphere at a shallow angle, ideally with a periapsis of around 30-35 km. Do you have a screenshot of the craft? This can turn into a fatal scenario if the center of mass gets behind the center of lift and you enter a flat spin. This plane will be able to take off, travel somewhere, perform a crew report, and then land. These have extremely poor temperature tolerance and will almost inevitably break up during atmospheric reentry. Why does my plane roll left on takeoff : r/KerbalSpaceProgram - reddit Note: Some high-efficiency rocket engines lose most of their power and efficiency in low atmosphere. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Your_First_Plane&oldid=103052. All rights reserved. So I have played the game for 200 hours and I love it. 4. I've had stability issues in planes where I'd have proper gear setup, balanced weight and lift. Take the large delta wings and place them on the aircraft. I believe the issue is there is not enough control surfaces to offset this issue, but it comes up very easy so it is not a very big deal. Landing can be trickier for spaceplanes since they are designed for higher speeds than other aircraft and may not be able to fly level at speeds low enough for an easy landing (<50 m/s). LV-N has less than 25% of its full power at Kerbin sea level. Consequently, atmospheric reentry is less dangerous with a Mk2 or Mk3 fuselage, compared to reentry with Mk1 fuselages. This can easily cause you to crash on landing. Enable mirror symmetry to save yourself some alignment effort. Do agree that the rear wheels either need to be brought closer or or the Nenter of mass needs to be move closer to the rear wheels. Controllability of a plane is on you. Landing also often requires rapid deceleration to avoid running off the end of the runway or crashing into a slope when landing on open terrain. They sometimes coincide with ailerons on some, more space-economical, aircraft. Keep in mind that as your altitude increases, your control surfaces and winglets will become increasingly ineffective and will no longer work at all once you leave the atmosphere, so you may need to add alternative control systems like reaction wheels or RCS thrusters. as Shkeec said check gear check gear check gear. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. These should be in the bottom left next to the display of the cost of the aircraft. So if I start encountering wobble it's time to pull back on the stick and get in the air. Balanced fuel saves Kerbal lives. It doesn't really matter if you angle them or not, there is not a single configuration for the wheels that can work on all plane parts. The FedEx plane pulled back up in time to avoid a collision. Sometimes taking things off and re-attaching them does it, or you may have to go so far as to scrap the design and rebuild.